Hello van an ervaren EFI Honda ECU tuner!

Elite Tuning · Post by **Elite Tuning** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:22 pm

This in englishhello All. I wanted to introduce myself to you folks. I was referred by Froggin to this site.I am going to post this message in dutch and in english just incase my translator isn't working properly.

I am experienced EFI engine management tuner specializing in honda/acura, mostly the B, H & K series engines. I tune Hondata, Haltech, Motec, AEM, & many more.

I do most of my tuning via the internet believe it or not. If any of you speak english, it would make things much easier. I will try my best to speak with everyone.

This in Dutch

hello allen. Ik wil aan introduceer zelf. Ik werd verwezen door Froggin naar deze plaats. Ik ga dit bericht in Nederlandse en in Engelse enkel incase posten mijn vertaler isn' t dat behoorlijk werkt. Ik ben de ervaren EFI tuner van het motorbeheer zich specialiseert in honda/acura, meestal B, H & K reeksmotoren. Ik doe Hondata, Haltech, Motec, AEM, & veel meer. Ik doe het grootste deel van mijn het stemmen via Internet of niet geloof het. Als om het even welk van u het Engels spreken, zou het dingen veel gemakkelijker maken. Ik zal mijn beste om met iedereen proberen te spreken.

D_ToXxÂ² · Post by **D_ToXxÂ²** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:45 pm

hi
and english is fine. We can all read it I hope..

what kind of ride you have? :stampen:

Post by **Lucas79** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:50 pm

Hi, Welcom to the Type-R forum. Please type English, the translation is terrible. :wink: Can you shed any light on how you tune ECU's over the Internet?

Grtz,

JDMTEG · Post by **JDMTEG** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:10 am

Hi there "elite tuning".
Welcome to this forum.

Elite Tuning · Post by **Elite Tuning** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:17 am

unicorn wrote:Hi, Welcom to the Type-R forum. Please type English, the translation is terrible. :wink: Can you shed any light on how you tune ECU's over the Internet?

Grtz,

I have an EK Civic. The basics of ECU tuning is i give specific instructions on how to datalog and then you send me datalogs. I use a specific torque graphing program to see any power changes. All datalogs from most standalone ecu management's show exactly what the car is doing, from a/f, to cam timing, ignition, mph, engine temperature, etc...

I also forgot to mention i'm a sponsor on k20a.org (sn is k20addict) and senior member on clubrsx (HardcoreRsxS) is the sn. I'm also on most UK type-r websites.

I guess i cannot post images until i have 3 posts or else i'd include a recent ITR engine tune example

Sander · Post by **Sander** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:09 am

Hey Mike
I see you haven't found a decent translator :lol:
Anyways a warm welcome from me :wink:.

Sander

Gaskleppie · Post by **Gaskleppie** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:28 am

Hi Elite!

I assume we first have to mount a special ecu from you before this will work?
I believe it can work like you said but I think being there while tuning a car is 1 key factor I couldn't mis! I tune also Honda's and I see so much disasterly bad build cars, loose parts, missing parts, wrong calibrated etc etc etc to tune a car without seeing or hearing the engine...

Just my thought.....

btw, I use eCtune for the OBD1 or modified cars.

Sander · Post by **Sander** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:32 am

Gaskleppie wrote:Hi Elite!

I assume we first have to mount a special ecu from you before this will work?
I believe it can work like you said but I think being there while tuning a car is 1 key factor I couldn't mis! I tune also Honda's and I see so much disasterly bad build cars, loose parts, missing parts, wrong calibrated etc etc etc to tune a car without seeing or hearing the engine...

Just my thought.....

btw, I use eCtune for the OBD1 or modified cars.

I did an inquiry with him because he does Hondata K-pro. You must datalog 3rd gear runs and he will analyze the datalog. He will then make changes to fuel, timing and cam angle to see if there is an increase in torque. The torque he calculates from the time vs rpm. If the rpms climb faster, you have an increase. A program who does this is http://chewies.net/~raz/tuning/razdyno/

A few things that are still unknown to me, and what might be interesting to ask openly here. How do you cope with gusts of wind that may effect the run. Weather has been quite stormy lately here. Also, as fuel runs out, the car gets lighter, hence the rpms climb faster. How do you account for this. Everytime someone makes a datalog, tell you how much fuel is left?

Edit: My k-pro has an wideband. I dont know how he can tune the fuel without this.

sigur · Post by **sigur** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:20 am

Welcome

corne · Post by **corne** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:23 am

welcome here

Sinister · Post by **Sinister** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:38 am

I'm sorry but i have to agree with gaskleppie.
I find it hard to believe that you can tune a car to its max by just datalogging its parameters. Even if your rpms climb faster that does not implicitly mean that you have more torque for example its also possible you have a lighter flywheel. I do understand that its possible to tune it that way but i still prefer a good old fashioned dyno tuning where you see the results on the screen.

Elite Tuning · Post by **Elite Tuning** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:00 pm

Sinister wrote:I'm sorry but i have to agree with gaskleppie.
I find it hard to believe that you can tune a car to its max by just datalogging its parameters. Even if your rpms climb faster that does not implicitly mean that you have more torque for example its also possible you have a lighter flywheel. I do understand that its possible to tune it that way but i still prefer a good old fashioned dyno tuning where you see the results on the screen.

Excellent objection Sinister. The answer to your question is quite simple. I take averages of several runs.Also, a lighter flywheel will make you go through the rpms faster, which in a sense, is more power (the same can be said about lightening your vehicle) Sander, I don't tune in windy conditions. I wait to tune on another day. Yes, you need a wideband o2 sensor to tune the car and no, i don't just datalog the parameters.

Sander,

The razdyno copy on that site is a generic one. I have an advanced version which lets me change more then the basic version since the program was created from my knowledge of dyno algorythms. So in a sense, the program I have is not only based from time vs rpm.

Gaskleppie,

It is the responsibility of the owner to make sure the car is in proper working order. Lose parts will count as "fake knock" on k-pro and due to my experience, it is easily identified. I've done this method for over a year now for many people and some have won 1st place in drag racing events, at the race track.

The program is just a tool and the rest is in my head. If you guys check out my signature on k20a.org, you will see some results.

Any more questions, feel free to ask away.

RedSun · Post by **RedSun** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:18 pm

Welcome here, i'll leave the laboratory talk to you guys, i only look at the pics here

Honda-ATR · Post by **Honda-ATR** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:25 pm

Welcome :zwaaien:

Sander · Post by **Sander** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:50 pm

Elite Tuning wrote:
Sinister wrote:I'm sorry but i have to agree with gaskleppie.
I find it hard to believe that you can tune a car to its max by just datalogging its parameters. Even if your rpms climb faster that does not implicitly mean that you have more torque for example its also possible you have a lighter flywheel. I do understand that its possible to tune it that way but i still prefer a good old fashioned dyno tuning where you see the results on the screen.

Excellent objection Sinister. The answer to your question is quite simple. I take averages of several runs.Also, a lighter flywheel will make you go through the rpms faster, which in a sense, is more power (the same can be said about lightening your vehicle) Sander, I don't tune in windy conditions. I wait to tune on another day. Yes, you need a wideband o2 sensor to tune the car and no, i don't just datalog the parameters.

Sander,

The razdyno copy on that site is a generic one. I have an advanced version which lets me change more then the basic version since the program was created from my knowledge of dyno algorythms. So in a sense, the program I have is not only based from time vs rpm.

Gaskleppie,

It is the responsibility of the owner to make sure the car is in proper working order. Lose parts will count as "fake knock" on k-pro and due to my experience, it is easily identified. I've done this method for over a year now for many people and some have won 1st place in drag racing events, at the race track.

The program is just a tool and the rest is in my head. If you guys check out my signature on k20a.org, you will see some results.

Any more questions, feel free to ask away.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. It was just as an example. Also I should have stated that it was my thoughts the way the tuning was done. I did some research and the Generic razdyno works on the principle of time vs rpm. So thats why I came to that conclusion.
But if you dont tune in windy conditions its going to be difficult in The Netherlands... almost windy all the time :roll:

But how do you cope with the fuel in the tank. At run #1 the tank could be full and at run #8 the tank could be nearly empty. You will see a gradual increase in calculated power because of the vehicle getting lighter. I don't know how much effect a full tank vs a nearly empty tank has, but I am sure it has some. Or is there a parameter in k-pro for the fuel level? Only in tank pressure?

Fascinating subject

Gaskleppie · Post by **Gaskleppie** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:52 pm

I am not going to argue about if it can work or not. You certainly will have the proof that it is working.
Still I have my doubt about tuning some one else his car without seeing or hearing the engine. Sensors are just sensors and can be broken or mis calibrated.

You are laying full responsibility at the owner about the state of his engine. If it goes wrong who's is guilty for his damaged engine? The owner, because he did not see the missing or damaged part on his engine before you started tuning?
In my view its way to risky to tune an engine like that.....

Maybe the K series engine is not like the B series. Maybe these engines are build like it is supposed to be but I see a lot of cars which are really bad build. Lose hoses, leaking fuel rubbers, bad gaskets between the throttle and intake manifold, broken fuel pressure regulators, wrong calibrated tps sensors, bad spark wires, bad conversion harnesses, bad alternators. Sometimes I am hours long rebuilding a cars hardware before I can start tuning it!

And you just say that the owner must take care of that? All the owners of the cars I tune are saying everything is alright and I can start tuning right away. Right........

no, I would not recommend your way of tuning to anybody. The risk is way to high.
If your engine breaks down the costs will be far more that it is cheaper to tune it like you are doing compared to a guy on a dyno.

sorry..

Sinister · Post by **Sinister** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:37 am

Yes but how can you be certain of some malfunctions on the engine gaskleppie if even broken parts are not always showing up on datalogs of the ECU? Is this with experience? Because you can say what you want to your clients, if it isnt broken and you fix it, it will always cost a lot of money. I do agree that you can give your advice at the owners but probably a second opinion of a original dealer would be needed although i sometimes question their honestness!

Elite Tuning · Post by **Elite Tuning** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:38 pm

Gaskleppie wrote:I am not going to argue about if it can work or not. You certainly will have the proof that it is working.
Still I have my doubt about tuning some one else his car without seeing or hearing the engine. Sensors are just sensors and can be broken or mis calibrated.

You are laying full responsibility at the owner about the state of his engine. If it goes wrong who's is guilty for his damaged engine? The owner, because he did not see the missing or damaged part on his engine before you started tuning?
In my view its way to risky to tune an engine like that.....

Maybe the K series engine is not like the B series. Maybe these engines are build like it is supposed to be but I see a lot of cars which are really bad build. Lose hoses, leaking fuel rubbers, bad gaskets between the throttle and intake manifold, broken fuel pressure regulators, wrong calibrated tps sensors, bad spark wires, bad conversion harnesses, bad alternators. Sometimes I am hours long rebuilding a cars hardware before I can start tuning it!

And you just say that the owner must take care of that? All the owners of the cars I tune are saying everything is alright and I can start tuning right away. Right........

no, I would not recommend your way of tuning to anybody. The risk is way to high.
If your engine breaks down the costs will be far more that it is cheaper to tune it like you are doing compared to a guy on a dyno.

sorry..

You are a very honest person and you are the same type of person I am looking for when tuning a car. Trust me, there are ways of finding out without being there. For example, if I am tuning a turbo setup with a 1:1 fpr and it is leaning out after i tuned the original boost psi for fuel, i know for a fact that the fpr is either broken or not calibrated. I've had several scenarios where the first log I get from my client, i see there are MAP sensor or knock sensor issues. Both the B series and K series will show CEL's if these are not working properly.

It is however the responsibility of the owner prior to tuning that the engine is in good operating condition. Most of my clients abort a run if they hear something go wrong. With any engine management system, i know from looking at a datalog if there is detonation ( either by running really rich or true knock). In the end, the risk is not that high, what so ever. If your conversion harness isn't wired correctly, half the sensors won't record, which in turn, won't show on the datalog/engine management. Once i see this, i abort immediately. The ecu of any car shows every parameter of the engine and if it isn't there, there's a problem.

However, i have had people contact me and the prior to starting the tune, I ask them a series of questions, which leak to in-proper settings and/or parts not being installed/installed properly and i don't tune them, period.

I will give you a fantastic example. I got a pm from a B series owner. He installed a turbocharger kit and 1) His knock sensor was broken 2) He wanted to tune right away for 20psi on a stock b16 3) he had 440cc injectors w/out a fuel pump upgrade 4) He had a leak down test of 185-185-100-185, which tells me there is a problem with 1 cylinder. On top of all that, after ( and if) we tuned, he wanted to run a 150 shot of nitrous. I turned this client down because he didn't want to listen to a professional's advice.

Yes, i do lay responsibility on the owner/tunee. I have certain terms and conditions that I send to the client that they must read. If they lie, its at their own fault. That's all there is to it.

I appreciate your concern though, I really do. I am concerned when i see people operating aftermarket parts at high risk (i.e. running a wet shot of nitrous without engine management. I don't care how much fuel the wet shot gives, if you don't retard timing, say bye bye to the piston rings in less than 1000 miles of nitrous operation).

To the question with fuel. As stated before, i take an average of the latest tune and i average the runs for torque.

Now I can post pictures. Here's my latest itr tune. Copy and paste into your browser url section.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v325/ ... seTune.jpg

Sander · Post by **Sander** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:59 pm

So if you are doing a cam angle composite map for example.. that requires multiple runs of the same angle, just to get a good average? Damn that will take a lot of time/datalogs.

So how fast does it generally goes? Because the process of Warming up car -> Datalog WOT 3rd gear runs -> back home -> sending datalog to you -> you making changes to the kal -> starting back over.

That could take a lot of time, especially if we're not in the same timezone. Also most clients work during the week and don' t have much time to datalog.

Elite Tuning · Post by **Elite Tuning** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:16 pm

Yes, it takes multiple logs to get the a/f correct anyways. It doesn't take that long really. I can cancel out a certain set of runs if i know they wont' benefit from the original set of logs.If you spend lots of time on your car, you will get the most out of it. It does take time and patience. If you dont have both, then I guess you won't &/or don't want the max out of your car.

I work with your time zone as i did for my client in cyprus, bahrain, south africa, south america, and all my east coast clients. If i need to be up in the middle of the night to tune, i will (& I have). Not all logs have to be done on the same day.